my answer for all movies/tv shows/books -- I don't care about the sex ratio either way, all or mostly male, all or mostly female, evenly split, whatever. My only possible concern is that there might be at least one male-female mostly-platonic pair for me to hone in on.
Hee! In a way, though, that rule keeps you from the worst of the dudecentric fiction, because you probably wouldn't be honing in on a mostly-platonic pair if the lady half wasn't lovely.
...I am obviously not neutral on the subject of women in my fiction, though.
I actually don't have a comment on the subject except to say that if Nurse Chapel isn't in the next movie (and also awesome), I will making a >:( face. Actually it doesn't have to be Nurse Chapel. Actually it would be better if there were more than one so it needs to be Nurse Chapel + at least one other awesome lady.
I picked "...both?" BECAUSE, WELL, HOW COULD I CHOOSE?
But ooooh, heeeey, most attractive Papa Kirk in the "Too Many Dicks" video. No, there are not enough women in Star Trek, even though Uhura is pretty awesome as far as women go. But I have to counter that with the fact that if JJ had decided to recast a few of the major characters as women, a lot of people would have had none of it. And YES, what does the opinion of fandom truly matter in the end, especially when it comes to opportunities for "non-standard," forward-moving casting, but sometimes a franchise is a franchise, and...yeah. But I guess there could have been more women just aroooound doing Star Fleet stuff, not just sleeping with cute would-be captains.
P.S. I REALLY LIKE THOSE VIDEOS, AND THE MEN IN THAT FILM ARE REALLY CUTE, BUT ALSO, GIRL POWER. BUT ALSO GOOD LOOKING MENFOLK. AND GIRL POWER.
(Also, the lyrics to "Too Many Dicks" are actually hilarious. Not enough ladies, too many mans. HAHAHAHAH, I'M LOLING.
AAH, MORE LIKE, TOO MANY EDITS, NOT ENOUGH CLAIRE KNOWING HOW TO WRITES.
I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH THIS, actually. Furthermore, ADDING women who had not been in the original show would be awkward. I mean they didn't really have room to dick around with any of it -- which is why I also think it's weird when people praise the movie for its' ethnic diversity. Um? I MEAN YEAH IT'S GREAT, but... it's not like they were going to cast a white guy to play Sulu. And I mean, sure, when they rebooted BSG they made men women, but original BSG's fanbase wasn't nearly as... I don't know. IT WAS JUST DIFFERENT.
I think my issue with the film is more with Uhura -- because even though she IS awesome she doesn't get to be that awesome? She's the least funny one out of everyone, and mostly all she gets to do is make out with Spock. But whatever, it's JJ, I trust him with girls and I'm sure she'll be more than fabulous enough in the next film? Presuming there is one?
GIRL POWER. BUT ALSO GOOD LOOKING MENFOLK. AND GIRL POWER. THIS IS HOW I FEEL ABOUT ALL FICTIONAL THINGS.
(I KNOW, THERE ARE SO MANY GEMS OF LINES IN THAT SONG. Wait outside all night to find twenty dudes in a conga line! goldenmelisande has been linking me to stuff all week, this (http://www.imeem.com/butterflydm/video/AZMi-L2h/butterfly-svcircus-shortfilm-video/) is my other favorite.)
YES, I HEAR YOU ON UHURA. She is awesome, but she didn't live up to her awesome potential. She has some wit and she speaks and understands multiple languages, but she also stood in the back in a short dress (I knoooow, original costuming) a lot of the time. I never watched Star Trek before the movie, so I don't know about other opportunities for women in the next film, but I agree with stepliana that we need to have more women. And the ethnic diversity thing I also agree with. If anything, the original Star Trek deserves more credit, since that's when having a lead character played by an Asian American or African American was less regular (even though it is far from regular now, but that's a whole other discussion). DUH, GIRL, THERE WILL BE A NEXT ONE, DON'T DENY ME OF MORE PAPA KIRK, OH WAIT, HE IS DEAD. And I trust JJ with women (Sydney Bristow, anyone), too, so he and I are rather golden.
THIS IS HOW I FEEL ABOUT ALL FICTIONAL THINGS. AS DO I. Can I just say, I really don't like when people are like, "Lizzy Bennet is actually not a feminist, because, in the end, she just decided to be with a guy. Why couldn't she have just lived her own life as a single lady (whoa oh oh)?" I'M LIKE, YOU KNOW WHAT, YOUUUU PEOPLE? YEAH. (For the record, I haven't met anyone like that, but I am sure they exist!)
I just can't get over "too many mans." HAHA, MANS. It's so funny to me for some reason. If I were drunk, I would maybe be on the floor (from laughter, not from tequila, and then it would be from the drink, not the song, or wouuuuld it?). Haha, what is my problem with words? That "Circus" one is ridiculous.
I think in that the direction JJ chose to go - alternate reality, he really had no choice but to keep the main character female to male ratio the same. That being said, now that he's got an established universe, if he doesn't include more females in the sequel, we will have words.
My answer: NONE OF THEE ABOVE. I don't really think about how many dudes versus how many ladies pop up in things, probably because sex doesn't have any additional weight in my liking/disliking of a character. (Though I do tend to have to be more defensive of the ladies I like, I think my interests split evenly.) Honestly it concerns me more when the ladies there are are being portrayed in an unfair/cliche fashion or if fandom is a dick about awesome ladies, because both happen way too often for my liking.
And that being said, I think JJ was just maintaining what the original main TOS cast was. I suppose he could have done a Starbuck-esque gender switch for somebody though, like they did with the new BSG. (The result of that was pretty awesome.)
Honestly it concerns me more when the ladies there are are being portrayed in an unfair/cliche fashion or if fandom is a dick about awesome ladies, because both happen way too often for my liking. These things concern me too, but I feel like pretty frequently they go hand-in-hand with things that don't have many women in the first place.
BUT I AM NOT LIKE YOU, I feel weird and uncomfortable when I am watching/reading something that DOES NOT INCLUDE WOMEN AT ALL. Things are more boring with only men! I DON'T KNOW WHY I FEEL THIS WAY. Maybe because girls are awesome? Not that men aren't... too, I just, I don't know.
omg, I still haven't seen it. It was between seeing Terminator Salvation and Star Trek and well, Christian Bale. unf. I mean, Chris Pine is hot but I've loved Christian longer. That and I know nothing of star trek.
This is totally random, but I'm thinking doing a picspam of the "Out of Your Dreams" ballet sometime (when I can get my hands on a copy), y/y? And maybe the barnyard dance from Seven Brides for Seven Brothers and eiiiither "America" or "Dance at the Gym" from West Side Story? And if you wanted to, you could do one of your awesome polls about the awesomeness of the dances? IDK, IDK, this is just an idea that's been formulating. I've been watching the "Out of Your Dreams" ballet on YouTube, and ooooh, it is lovely.
OKAY FIRST OF ALL! I AM SO EXCITED AT THE VERY THOUGHT OF THAT PICSPAM, THAT I COULD LIKE... DO A LAP AROUND MY HOUSE/WRITE THIS ENTIRE COMMENT IN CAPSLOCK. But I will refrain. But yes absolutely I will! I mean I can't think of what I'd say, BUT I WILL FIGURE IT OUT. Even if I have to watch them a bunch of times. That's always hard.
GIRL, I AM NOT EVEN LYING WHEN I SAY THAT I AM 1/3 DONE WITH the SBfSB one. I *~*got*~* the movie, and I haven't even watched any of it, I just went straight to the barnraising dance. West Side Story was checked out at the movie store, and I'm working on Oklahoma!, but! Seven Brides for Seven Brothers is check, check, check. I have exactly 123 caps, just of the dance! And I will go chronologically, so Oklahoma! will be next (and I may be so tired from this one that it won't come for ages, but it's a-brewin').
I'm not really sure why that first part was in all caps? But really, I mean it. I already have the caps I have so far posted in a private entry. Whaaat.
P.P.S. I am smiling so much at the Lee Pace!iness of our icons.
I DID NOT NOTICE BECAUSE... I... AM A BAD FEMINIST? AM UNOBSERVANT? PERHAPS A COMBINATION OF THE TWO?
I will say, though, that more important than the ratio of women to men is the way said women and men are portrayed. One kickass lady makes up for a hundred wimpy damsels desiring nothing more than to fulfill their purpose as mothers. Or something like that. (Not that motherhood is bad, but, like. You know what I mean.)
SO MANY KICKASS LADIES FAIL AT BEING KICKASS, though? I guess I'm talking about movies more than TV, ohmygoddd I AM SO SICK of the token "kickass" lady in an action film. I was watching League of Extraordinary Gentlemen last night (not of my own accord, if I had known that was what they were watching I WOULD NOT HAVE GONE OVER TO MEGAN'S HOUSE) and... Mina is so blah, and SHE IS THE ONLY GIRL. And she's supposed to be a cool scientist who beats people up while ~wearing leather~, aaaaaaaand I just. Give me Donna Moss over that any day.
And okay I do know that when you said "kickass" ladies you meant my kind of Donna/CJ/Scully/all the others kickass and not... lame action movie kickass, IT JUST INSPIRED A SIDE RANT. I don't know. I am not really disappointed in the ratio itself, so much as I am disappointed in the ratio + the fact that Uhura, though awesome, COULD HAVE BEEN SO MUCH MORE AWESOME. You know? Am I crazy?
Not crazy at all! Unless we're both crazy, in which case whatever, because I totally agree with you. Uhura definitely had the potential for awesome but they didn't do much to flesh out any opportunities for her to show it off. I felt like she kind of just operated as something of a romantic object in this movie? But my guess is that they'll make more movies since this one was so popular -- is another one already in the works? I wouldn't know -- so hopefully they'll amp up the awesome next time. As long as she doesn't turn into the aforementioned supposed-to-be-awesome-lady-who-turns-out-to-be-kind-of-lame.
Speaking of exceptionally NOT AWESOME "KICKASS" ladies, have you seen... what's it called, that semi-recent Will Smith movie? Um. Hancock! TALK ABOUT A LAME-ASS GAL. Charlize Theron had the potential to be very awesome and she BLEW IT. Although, okay, she didn't specifically, but whoever wrote her character gave her this powerful, intelligent, aggressive personality and also the ability to save the world a la Hancock himself, buuuuut she preferred to settle down and have kids instead. WHICH, WHAT. Like, I'm coming off as sounding so anti-family and anti-kids which I'm not, but isn't that just such a stereotype? There's this guy and this girl and they have equal world-saving capabilities but of course the woman feels incomplete without a family and the guy's good to just go out and do his duty without that. How unfair to both genders, really!
Also, uhh, sorry if you haven't seen the film and I've just ruined the whole thing for you. It wasn't a great film anyway, though, so... :D?
i can't fault a movie based on a pre-established canon for the gender of its characters. so i just enjoyed all the pretty boys. but i understand that star trek is actually why fanfiction exploded, because women wanted to flesh out the female characters to more than just sex objects in miniskirts and go-go boots. and, ha, the "too many dicks on the dancefloor" video is fantastic!
but i understand that star trek is actually why fanfiction exploded, because women wanted to flesh out the female characters to more than just sex objects in miniskirts and go-go boots. WAS IT REALLY? (That is a genuine question, not a rhetorical one -- I always thought early Trekfic was all about like, boys.)
it was, really! i took this class in college called "illegitimate media," which was largely about fan culture, and i did an oral presentation about fanfiction, which was, like, the greatest thing i'd ever done in my life. so i read a bunch about star trek fic, and there was a tradition of rewriting certain plotlines or writing original ones from the points of view of the female characters. and, yeah, there was also a lot just about the boys, and star trek fic is the origin of slash (as in "kirk-slash-spock"), but that had way more to do with just the fact that they were the most developed and, arguably, interesting characters in the series. i mean, even in the new movie, with uhura being a large character and having romantic potential with both spock and kirk, i don't find either of those relationships as interesting as the friendship between kirk and spock, so i totally understand how and why slash came about.
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Date: 2009-06-14 05:25 am (UTC)Completely shameless and proud of it. ;)
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Date: 2009-06-14 05:33 am (UTC)...I am obviously not neutral on the subject of women in my fiction, though.
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Date: 2009-06-14 05:28 am (UTC)I actually don't have a comment on the subject except to say that if Nurse Chapel isn't in the next movie (and also awesome), I will making a >:( face. Actually it doesn't have to be Nurse Chapel. Actually it would be better if there were more than one so it needs to be Nurse Chapel + at least one other awesome lady.
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Date: 2009-06-14 05:32 am (UTC)NURSE CHAPEL + TOTALLY NOT DEAD GAILA, obviously.
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Date: 2009-06-14 06:04 am (UTC)But ooooh, heeeey, most attractive Papa Kirk in the "Too Many Dicks" video. No, there are not enough women in Star Trek, even though Uhura is pretty awesome as far as women go. But I have to counter that with the fact that if JJ had decided to recast a few of the major characters as women, a lot of people would have had none of it. And YES, what does the opinion of fandom truly matter in the end, especially when it comes to opportunities for "non-standard," forward-moving casting, but sometimes a franchise is a franchise, and...yeah. But I guess there could have been more women just aroooound doing Star Fleet stuff, not just sleeping with cute would-be captains.
P.S. I REALLY LIKE THOSE VIDEOS, AND THE MEN IN THAT FILM ARE REALLY CUTE, BUT ALSO, GIRL POWER. BUT ALSO GOOD LOOKING MENFOLK. AND GIRL POWER.
(Also, the lyrics to "Too Many Dicks" are actually hilarious. Not enough ladies, too many mans. HAHAHAHAH, I'M LOLING.
AAH, MORE LIKE, TOO MANY EDITS, NOT ENOUGH CLAIRE KNOWING HOW TO WRITES.
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Date: 2009-06-14 06:12 am (UTC)I think my issue with the film is more with Uhura -- because even though she IS awesome she doesn't get to be that awesome? She's the least funny one out of everyone, and mostly all she gets to do is make out with Spock. But whatever, it's JJ, I trust him with girls and I'm sure she'll be more than fabulous enough in the next film? Presuming there is one?
GIRL POWER. BUT ALSO GOOD LOOKING MENFOLK. AND GIRL POWER.
THIS IS HOW I FEEL ABOUT ALL FICTIONAL THINGS.
(I KNOW, THERE ARE SO MANY GEMS OF LINES IN THAT SONG. Wait outside all night to find twenty dudes in a conga line!
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Date: 2009-06-14 06:22 am (UTC)THIS IS HOW I FEEL ABOUT ALL FICTIONAL THINGS.
AS DO I. Can I just say, I really don't like when people are like, "Lizzy Bennet is actually not a feminist, because, in the end, she just decided to be with a guy. Why couldn't she have just lived her own life as a single lady (whoa oh oh)?" I'M LIKE, YOU KNOW WHAT, YOUUUU PEOPLE? YEAH. (For the record, I haven't met anyone like that, but I am sure they exist!)
I just can't get over "too many mans." HAHA, MANS. It's so funny to me for some reason. If I were drunk, I would maybe be on the floor (from laughter, not from tequila, and then it would be from the drink, not the song, or wouuuuld it?). Haha, what is my problem with words? That "Circus" one is ridiculous.
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Date: 2009-06-14 06:12 am (UTC)This would be more eloquent, but I am drunk.
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Date: 2009-06-14 06:14 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-14 12:17 pm (UTC)And that being said, I think JJ was just maintaining what the original main TOS cast was. I suppose he could have done a Starbuck-esque gender switch for somebody though, like they did with the new BSG. (The result of that was pretty awesome.)
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Date: 2009-06-15 03:18 am (UTC)These things concern me too, but I feel like pretty frequently they go hand-in-hand with things that don't have many women in the first place.
BUT I AM NOT LIKE YOU, I feel weird and uncomfortable when I am watching/reading something that DOES NOT INCLUDE WOMEN AT ALL. Things are more boring with only men! I DON'T KNOW WHY I FEEL THIS WAY. Maybe because girls are awesome? Not that men aren't... too, I just, I don't know.
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Date: 2009-06-14 01:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-15 03:19 am (UTC)P.S.
Date: 2009-06-14 06:13 pm (UTC)Re: P.S.
Date: 2009-06-15 03:12 am (UTC)Re: P.S.
Date: 2009-06-15 03:20 am (UTC)I'm not really sure why that first part was in all caps? But really, I mean it. I already have the caps I have so far posted in a private entry. Whaaat.
P.P.S. I am smiling so much at the Lee Pace!iness of our icons.
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Date: 2009-06-14 06:48 pm (UTC)I will say, though, that more important than the ratio of women to men is the way said women and men are portrayed. One kickass lady makes up for a hundred wimpy damsels desiring nothing more than to fulfill their purpose as mothers. Or something like that. (Not that motherhood is bad, but, like. You know what I mean.)
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Date: 2009-06-15 03:24 am (UTC)And okay I do know that when you said "kickass" ladies you meant my kind of Donna/CJ/Scully/all the others kickass and not... lame action movie kickass, IT JUST INSPIRED A SIDE RANT. I don't know. I am not really disappointed in the ratio itself, so much as I am disappointed in the ratio + the fact that Uhura, though awesome, COULD HAVE BEEN SO MUCH MORE AWESOME. You know? Am I crazy?
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Date: 2009-06-15 07:16 pm (UTC)Speaking of exceptionally NOT AWESOME "KICKASS" ladies, have you seen... what's it called, that semi-recent Will Smith movie? Um. Hancock! TALK ABOUT A LAME-ASS GAL. Charlize Theron had the potential to be very awesome and she BLEW IT. Although, okay, she didn't specifically, but whoever wrote her character gave her this powerful, intelligent, aggressive personality and also the ability to save the world a la Hancock himself, buuuuut she preferred to settle down and have kids instead. WHICH, WHAT. Like, I'm coming off as sounding so anti-family and anti-kids which I'm not, but isn't that just such a stereotype? There's this guy and this girl and they have equal world-saving capabilities but of course the woman feels incomplete without a family and the guy's good to just go out and do his duty without that. How unfair to both genders, really!
Also, uhh, sorry if you haven't seen the film and I've just ruined the whole thing for you. It wasn't a great film anyway, though, so... :D?
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Date: 2009-06-14 10:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-15 03:36 am (UTC)WAS IT REALLY? (That is a genuine question, not a rhetorical one -- I always thought early Trekfic was all about like, boys.)
But yes, I mostly agree.
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Date: 2009-06-18 02:18 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-14 10:44 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-14 10:44 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-15 03:43 am (UTC)