my answer for all movies/tv shows/books -- I don't care about the sex ratio either way, all or mostly male, all or mostly female, evenly split, whatever. My only possible concern is that there might be at least one male-female mostly-platonic pair for me to hone in on.
I actually don't have a comment on the subject except to say that if Nurse Chapel isn't in the next movie (and also awesome), I will making a >:( face. Actually it doesn't have to be Nurse Chapel. Actually it would be better if there were more than one so it needs to be Nurse Chapel + at least one other awesome lady.
Hee! In a way, though, that rule keeps you from the worst of the dudecentric fiction, because you probably wouldn't be honing in on a mostly-platonic pair if the lady half wasn't lovely.
...I am obviously not neutral on the subject of women in my fiction, though.
I picked "...both?" BECAUSE, WELL, HOW COULD I CHOOSE?
But ooooh, heeeey, most attractive Papa Kirk in the "Too Many Dicks" video. No, there are not enough women in Star Trek, even though Uhura is pretty awesome as far as women go. But I have to counter that with the fact that if JJ had decided to recast a few of the major characters as women, a lot of people would have had none of it. And YES, what does the opinion of fandom truly matter in the end, especially when it comes to opportunities for "non-standard," forward-moving casting, but sometimes a franchise is a franchise, and...yeah. But I guess there could have been more women just aroooound doing Star Fleet stuff, not just sleeping with cute would-be captains.
P.S. I REALLY LIKE THOSE VIDEOS, AND THE MEN IN THAT FILM ARE REALLY CUTE, BUT ALSO, GIRL POWER. BUT ALSO GOOD LOOKING MENFOLK. AND GIRL POWER.
(Also, the lyrics to "Too Many Dicks" are actually hilarious. Not enough ladies, too many mans. HAHAHAHAH, I'M LOLING.
AAH, MORE LIKE, TOO MANY EDITS, NOT ENOUGH CLAIRE KNOWING HOW TO WRITES.
I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH THIS, actually. Furthermore, ADDING women who had not been in the original show would be awkward. I mean they didn't really have room to dick around with any of it -- which is why I also think it's weird when people praise the movie for its' ethnic diversity. Um? I MEAN YEAH IT'S GREAT, but... it's not like they were going to cast a white guy to play Sulu. And I mean, sure, when they rebooted BSG they made men women, but original BSG's fanbase wasn't nearly as... I don't know. IT WAS JUST DIFFERENT.
I think my issue with the film is more with Uhura -- because even though she IS awesome she doesn't get to be that awesome? She's the least funny one out of everyone, and mostly all she gets to do is make out with Spock. But whatever, it's JJ, I trust him with girls and I'm sure she'll be more than fabulous enough in the next film? Presuming there is one?
GIRL POWER. BUT ALSO GOOD LOOKING MENFOLK. AND GIRL POWER. THIS IS HOW I FEEL ABOUT ALL FICTIONAL THINGS.
(I KNOW, THERE ARE SO MANY GEMS OF LINES IN THAT SONG. Wait outside all night to find twenty dudes in a conga line! goldenmelisande has been linking me to stuff all week, this (http://www.imeem.com/butterflydm/video/AZMi-L2h/butterfly-svcircus-shortfilm-video/) is my other favorite.)
I think in that the direction JJ chose to go - alternate reality, he really had no choice but to keep the main character female to male ratio the same. That being said, now that he's got an established universe, if he doesn't include more females in the sequel, we will have words.
YES, I HEAR YOU ON UHURA. She is awesome, but she didn't live up to her awesome potential. She has some wit and she speaks and understands multiple languages, but she also stood in the back in a short dress (I knoooow, original costuming) a lot of the time. I never watched Star Trek before the movie, so I don't know about other opportunities for women in the next film, but I agree with stepliana that we need to have more women. And the ethnic diversity thing I also agree with. If anything, the original Star Trek deserves more credit, since that's when having a lead character played by an Asian American or African American was less regular (even though it is far from regular now, but that's a whole other discussion). DUH, GIRL, THERE WILL BE A NEXT ONE, DON'T DENY ME OF MORE PAPA KIRK, OH WAIT, HE IS DEAD. And I trust JJ with women (Sydney Bristow, anyone), too, so he and I are rather golden.
THIS IS HOW I FEEL ABOUT ALL FICTIONAL THINGS. AS DO I. Can I just say, I really don't like when people are like, "Lizzy Bennet is actually not a feminist, because, in the end, she just decided to be with a guy. Why couldn't she have just lived her own life as a single lady (whoa oh oh)?" I'M LIKE, YOU KNOW WHAT, YOUUUU PEOPLE? YEAH. (For the record, I haven't met anyone like that, but I am sure they exist!)
I just can't get over "too many mans." HAHA, MANS. It's so funny to me for some reason. If I were drunk, I would maybe be on the floor (from laughter, not from tequila, and then it would be from the drink, not the song, or wouuuuld it?). Haha, what is my problem with words? That "Circus" one is ridiculous.
I knowwwwww there is a Nurse Chapel in the Original Series but I've seen like one and a handful of half episodes of it and I... don't think she was any of them. BUT HOPEFULLY THEY INCLUDE HER IN 2 AND SHE TURNS OUT LOVELY. (ALSO ahahah, I think my first thought when I saw the film/George Kirk was "is that Chris Pine? HE IS OBSCENELY ATTRACTIVE"). Also, Uhura being a languages expert! Was nice! And a lovely extra detail because I think original Uhura's area of expertise was being a galactic secretary/phone operator? Maybe. Don't quote me on that. Like I said, I... haven't really seen it.
The other day I encountered someone who thought Anne of Green Gables was too heteronormative (because Anne ended up with Gilbert and not Diana? And Gilbert was just a plot device? IT WAS WEIRD), so yes, those kinds of people do exist. Although I guess that's not the same at all. But still.
"Not enough ladies, too many mans" is totally my journal title at the moment. I have been singing it under my breath and giggling to myself for daaaaays, it's weird and probably obnoxious.
It was nice to see Amanda Foreman in the movie for 3 seconds, though! Oh, JJ's so cute about recasting people. I read on IMDb that because Greg Grunberg couldn't actually appear in the film due to scheduling conflicts, JJ had him be the voice of Kirk's stepdad when he was driving as a young kid.
I remember reading a quote from Drew Barrymore in Cosmo!Girl (yeah, that's right) about how she didn't understand why women couldn't be feminists without hating men. Or why it seems that in order to be a true feminist, you have to reject me. Or something. I'm not saying all feminists do that, but I agree with her.
I have been singing it under my breath and giggling to myself for daaaaays, it's weird and probably obnoxious. Hmm, more like awesome and probably delightful. Sadly, my life is "not enough mans, too many ladies." As it has alwaaaays been. I will now rewrite "Too Many Dicks on the Dancefloor" as an autobiographical ballad.
That was nice! And I'd heard the Grunberg thing too! I... forgot to pay attention to that the second time I saw the film, even though I meant to. Oh well. That driving scene was kind of weird, it felt more trailerish than movieish.
Ohhhhhh, I don't know that I agree with that, though. I mean, isn't a true feminist just anyone who believes women are equal to men? I think the true tragedy is that the word has mutated into something bad, when it isn't at all. Although hating men is bad too. I DON'T KNOW.
I'M PRETTY SURE THAT WOULD TURN OUT AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL FOR ME TOO (...I like my gender? I GUESS?), doooooooooo it.
(I forgot to add to my previous comment that I wondered that about George Kirk, too. I was like, "Umm, did they CGI Chris Pine's face on someone else? But no, they just look that much alike (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_seoBbajEnPA/ShOH0Jz0LsI/AAAAAAAAKFA/guDNnkMEr8k/s400/chris+vs.+chris.jpg)!)
I think I worded it badly. She was saying, "Why can't feminists love women and love men?" Obviously, I mean more than "love" women, but I just used that to balance the two, if that makes sense. I think she was referencing this backlash against feminism and the bad stuff it's morphed into. Either way, I agree with you about what makes a "true feminist." This discussion is always a little...what's the word, touchy, just because I feel it's always hard to articulate how you feel about the subject, and there are so many levels and layers to being a feminist. Women can want more equal rights for women and like men. Yeah?
Not enough men on the dance floor Too few kind ones dancing near me But yeaaah, ladies! Not enough men on the dance floor But yeaaah, ladies! I'd like a dancing gentleman But yeaaah, ladies!
Going to the party Sippin' on Bacardi Wanna meet a hottie But there's all these other ladies All these "boobs out" ladies They're on break in Miami The only gals these guys will look at will prob be kinda shady
Too many boobs Tellin' lots of lies Too close to my shit Too hard to meet guys I need better odds More rods, less broads I came to do battle Scadaddle with the cattle prods
Not enough men Enough with boys Too many sisters Not enough misters Too much time on, too many hands Too many ladies, not enough mans
Added verse: Where are all the nice guys Prob prob hearin' lies (lies!) Too many boobs Too many noobs What about cute men in ties?
Too many tricks Too many dicks Too many throngs Now sing this song
THEY ARE BOTH VERY ATTRACTIVE SPECIMENS OF MENFOLK.
Okay yes, I agree with all of that. I guess I just get weird about the word! But yes, it is a tricky, messy thing to talk about. And I am terrible at articulating how I feel about anything real.
Claaaaaaaire, that is too delightful, MY SMILE IS GOING TO BREAK MY FACE. I wasn't sure you were going to do it, but those are perfect, perfect, perfect. Furthermore they are are so you, it is kind of autobiographical now!
I would not decline an offer from either of them were they to procure a date from me. Can a date be procured for someone? Let's just say for the sake of my grammar ego that it can.
I guess I just get weird about the word! I think you have a right to! It is, as you said, tricky and messy.
Haha, I tried! Some of them, I just couldn't change. And it's both autobiographical and definitely not, as I don't go out to clubs and sip Bacardi, although I'm sure if I were to do so, I would feel intimidated and extremely uncomfortable by all the "'boobs out' ladies." Feel free to sing it out loud; I won't ask for royalties (can you tell I don't know how music licensing works?)
Aah, it's so late! To bed, to bed. I've very much enjoyed these late night conversations we've been having, Alex! Good times.
I do not see anything grammatically wrong with that at all, but uh, maybe I am too tired to notice? Either way, I'm pretty sure in that implausible scenario, I would embarrass myself with excitement in the process of accepting the date. With either Chris.
Well, no, but the lines about gentlemen and nice guys with ties were pretty Clairish.
Feel free to sing it out loud; I won't ask for royalties (can you tell I don't know how music licensing works?) GOOD, BECAUSE I... already have? Maybe.
My answer: NONE OF THEE ABOVE. I don't really think about how many dudes versus how many ladies pop up in things, probably because sex doesn't have any additional weight in my liking/disliking of a character. (Though I do tend to have to be more defensive of the ladies I like, I think my interests split evenly.) Honestly it concerns me more when the ladies there are are being portrayed in an unfair/cliche fashion or if fandom is a dick about awesome ladies, because both happen way too often for my liking.
And that being said, I think JJ was just maintaining what the original main TOS cast was. I suppose he could have done a Starbuck-esque gender switch for somebody though, like they did with the new BSG. (The result of that was pretty awesome.)
omg, I still haven't seen it. It was between seeing Terminator Salvation and Star Trek and well, Christian Bale. unf. I mean, Chris Pine is hot but I've loved Christian longer. That and I know nothing of star trek.
Well, no, but the lines about gentlemen and nice guys with ties were pretty Clairish. I figured those were the lines you were referring to! I think they're the most Clairish, too.
This is totally random, but I'm thinking doing a picspam of the "Out of Your Dreams" ballet sometime (when I can get my hands on a copy), y/y? And maybe the barnyard dance from Seven Brides for Seven Brothers and eiiiither "America" or "Dance at the Gym" from West Side Story? And if you wanted to, you could do one of your awesome polls about the awesomeness of the dances? IDK, IDK, this is just an idea that's been formulating. I've been watching the "Out of Your Dreams" ballet on YouTube, and ooooh, it is lovely.
I DID NOT NOTICE BECAUSE... I... AM A BAD FEMINIST? AM UNOBSERVANT? PERHAPS A COMBINATION OF THE TWO?
I will say, though, that more important than the ratio of women to men is the way said women and men are portrayed. One kickass lady makes up for a hundred wimpy damsels desiring nothing more than to fulfill their purpose as mothers. Or something like that. (Not that motherhood is bad, but, like. You know what I mean.)
i can't fault a movie based on a pre-established canon for the gender of its characters. so i just enjoyed all the pretty boys. but i understand that star trek is actually why fanfiction exploded, because women wanted to flesh out the female characters to more than just sex objects in miniskirts and go-go boots. and, ha, the "too many dicks on the dancefloor" video is fantastic!
OKAY FIRST OF ALL! I AM SO EXCITED AT THE VERY THOUGHT OF THAT PICSPAM, THAT I COULD LIKE... DO A LAP AROUND MY HOUSE/WRITE THIS ENTIRE COMMENT IN CAPSLOCK. But I will refrain. But yes absolutely I will! I mean I can't think of what I'd say, BUT I WILL FIGURE IT OUT. Even if I have to watch them a bunch of times. That's always hard.
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Date: 2009-06-14 05:25 am (UTC)Completely shameless and proud of it. ;)
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Date: 2009-06-14 05:28 am (UTC)I actually don't have a comment on the subject except to say that if Nurse Chapel isn't in the next movie (and also awesome), I will making a >:( face. Actually it doesn't have to be Nurse Chapel. Actually it would be better if there were more than one so it needs to be Nurse Chapel + at least one other awesome lady.
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Date: 2009-06-14 05:32 am (UTC)NURSE CHAPEL + TOTALLY NOT DEAD GAILA, obviously.
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Date: 2009-06-14 05:33 am (UTC)...I am obviously not neutral on the subject of women in my fiction, though.
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Date: 2009-06-14 06:04 am (UTC)But ooooh, heeeey, most attractive Papa Kirk in the "Too Many Dicks" video. No, there are not enough women in Star Trek, even though Uhura is pretty awesome as far as women go. But I have to counter that with the fact that if JJ had decided to recast a few of the major characters as women, a lot of people would have had none of it. And YES, what does the opinion of fandom truly matter in the end, especially when it comes to opportunities for "non-standard," forward-moving casting, but sometimes a franchise is a franchise, and...yeah. But I guess there could have been more women just aroooound doing Star Fleet stuff, not just sleeping with cute would-be captains.
P.S. I REALLY LIKE THOSE VIDEOS, AND THE MEN IN THAT FILM ARE REALLY CUTE, BUT ALSO, GIRL POWER. BUT ALSO GOOD LOOKING MENFOLK. AND GIRL POWER.
(Also, the lyrics to "Too Many Dicks" are actually hilarious. Not enough ladies, too many mans. HAHAHAHAH, I'M LOLING.
AAH, MORE LIKE, TOO MANY EDITS, NOT ENOUGH CLAIRE KNOWING HOW TO WRITES.
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Date: 2009-06-14 06:12 am (UTC)I think my issue with the film is more with Uhura -- because even though she IS awesome she doesn't get to be that awesome? She's the least funny one out of everyone, and mostly all she gets to do is make out with Spock. But whatever, it's JJ, I trust him with girls and I'm sure she'll be more than fabulous enough in the next film? Presuming there is one?
GIRL POWER. BUT ALSO GOOD LOOKING MENFOLK. AND GIRL POWER.
THIS IS HOW I FEEL ABOUT ALL FICTIONAL THINGS.
(I KNOW, THERE ARE SO MANY GEMS OF LINES IN THAT SONG. Wait outside all night to find twenty dudes in a conga line!
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Date: 2009-06-14 06:12 am (UTC)This would be more eloquent, but I am drunk.
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Date: 2009-06-14 06:14 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-14 06:22 am (UTC)THIS IS HOW I FEEL ABOUT ALL FICTIONAL THINGS.
AS DO I. Can I just say, I really don't like when people are like, "Lizzy Bennet is actually not a feminist, because, in the end, she just decided to be with a guy. Why couldn't she have just lived her own life as a single lady (whoa oh oh)?" I'M LIKE, YOU KNOW WHAT, YOUUUU PEOPLE? YEAH. (For the record, I haven't met anyone like that, but I am sure they exist!)
I just can't get over "too many mans." HAHA, MANS. It's so funny to me for some reason. If I were drunk, I would maybe be on the floor (from laughter, not from tequila, and then it would be from the drink, not the song, or wouuuuld it?). Haha, what is my problem with words? That "Circus" one is ridiculous.
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Date: 2009-06-14 06:34 am (UTC)The other day I encountered someone who thought Anne of Green Gables was too heteronormative (because Anne ended up with Gilbert and not Diana? And Gilbert was just a plot device? IT WAS WEIRD), so yes, those kinds of people do exist. Although I guess that's not the same at all. But still.
"Not enough ladies, too many mans" is totally my journal title at the moment. I have been singing it under my breath and giggling to myself for daaaaays, it's weird and probably obnoxious.
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Date: 2009-06-14 06:40 am (UTC)I remember reading a quote from Drew Barrymore in Cosmo!Girl (yeah, that's right) about how she didn't understand why women couldn't be feminists without hating men. Or why it seems that in order to be a true feminist, you have to reject me. Or something. I'm not saying all feminists do that, but I agree with her.
I have been singing it under my breath and giggling to myself for daaaaays, it's weird and probably obnoxious.
Hmm, more like awesome and probably delightful. Sadly, my life is "not enough mans, too many ladies." As it has alwaaaays been. I will now rewrite "Too Many Dicks on the Dancefloor" as an autobiographical ballad.
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Date: 2009-06-14 06:48 am (UTC)Ohhhhhh, I don't know that I agree with that, though. I mean, isn't a true feminist just anyone who believes women are equal to men? I think the true tragedy is that the word has mutated into something bad, when it isn't at all. Although hating men is bad too. I DON'T KNOW.
I'M PRETTY SURE THAT WOULD TURN OUT AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL FOR ME TOO (...I like my gender? I GUESS?), doooooooooo it.
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Date: 2009-06-14 07:05 am (UTC)I think I worded it badly. She was saying, "Why can't feminists love women and love men?" Obviously, I mean more than "love" women, but I just used that to balance the two, if that makes sense. I think she was referencing this backlash against feminism and the bad stuff it's morphed into. Either way, I agree with you about what makes a "true feminist." This discussion is always a little...what's the word, touchy, just because I feel it's always hard to articulate how you feel about the subject, and there are so many levels and layers to being a feminist. Women can want more equal rights for women and like men. Yeah?
Not enough men on the dance floor
Too few kind ones dancing near me
But yeaaah, ladies!
Not enough men on the dance floor
But yeaaah, ladies!
I'd like a dancing gentleman
But yeaaah, ladies!
Going to the party
Sippin' on Bacardi
Wanna meet a hottie
But there's all these other ladies
All these "boobs out" ladies
They're on break in Miami
The only gals these guys will look at will prob be kinda shady
Too many boobs
Tellin' lots of lies
Too close to my shit
Too hard to meet guys
I need better odds
More rods, less broads
I came to do battle
Scadaddle with the cattle prods
Not enough men
Enough with boys
Too many sisters
Not enough misters
Too much time on, too many hands
Too many ladies, not enough mans
Added verse:
Where are all the nice guys
Prob prob hearin' lies (lies!)
Too many boobs
Too many noobs
What about cute men in ties?
Too many tricks
Too many dicks
Too many throngs
Now sing this song
(THAT WAS NOT EASY.)
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Date: 2009-06-14 07:27 am (UTC)Okay yes, I agree with all of that. I guess I just get weird about the word! But yes, it is a tricky, messy thing to talk about. And I am terrible at articulating how I feel about anything real.
Claaaaaaaire, that is too delightful, MY SMILE IS GOING TO BREAK MY FACE. I wasn't sure you were going to do it, but those are perfect, perfect, perfect. Furthermore they are are so you, it is kind of autobiographical now!
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Date: 2009-06-14 07:33 am (UTC)I guess I just get weird about the word!
I think you have a right to! It is, as you said, tricky and messy.
Haha, I tried! Some of them, I just couldn't change. And it's both autobiographical and definitely not, as I don't go out to clubs and sip Bacardi, although I'm sure if I were to do so, I would feel intimidated and extremely uncomfortable by all the "'boobs out' ladies." Feel free to sing it out loud; I won't ask for royalties (can you tell I don't know how music licensing works?)
Aah, it's so late! To bed, to bed. I've very much enjoyed these late night conversations we've been having, Alex! Good times.
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Date: 2009-06-14 07:45 am (UTC)Well, no, but the lines about gentlemen and nice guys with ties were pretty Clairish.
Feel free to sing it out loud; I won't ask for royalties (can you tell I don't know how music licensing works?)
GOOD, BECAUSE I... already have? Maybe.
Good night! I reaaaaaaally have too.
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Date: 2009-06-14 12:17 pm (UTC)And that being said, I think JJ was just maintaining what the original main TOS cast was. I suppose he could have done a Starbuck-esque gender switch for somebody though, like they did with the new BSG. (The result of that was pretty awesome.)
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Date: 2009-06-14 01:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-14 04:30 pm (UTC)I figured those were the lines you were referring to! I think they're the most Clairish, too.
P.S.
Date: 2009-06-14 06:13 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-14 06:48 pm (UTC)I will say, though, that more important than the ratio of women to men is the way said women and men are portrayed. One kickass lady makes up for a hundred wimpy damsels desiring nothing more than to fulfill their purpose as mothers. Or something like that. (Not that motherhood is bad, but, like. You know what I mean.)
no subject
Date: 2009-06-14 10:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-14 10:44 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-14 10:44 pm (UTC)Re: P.S.
Date: 2009-06-15 03:12 am (UTC)