the weirdest thing is that nothing provoked this, I AM JUST RANDOMLY UPSET ABOUT IT.

[elapses]

Okay, will someone please explain to me what is misogynistic about Sex and the City?

(AND JUST TO CLARIFY: This is not a question of to watch or not to watch or good or not good. I think there are a thousand and one legitimate criticisms/reasons not to watch Sex and the City. I just can't wrap my head around how misogyny/sexism can be one of them. IF I AM BEING DENSE, PROVE ME WRONG.)

Comments

[dictatorcari]

Maybe because it portrays (those four) women as being primarily concerned with shopping, money, and sex? I mean, on the surface, the show is all about finding fulfillment by being with men. But I don't think it's sexist...a lot of women really are like that (minus the spacious New York apartments). And it seems to me that the show is really about friendship over romantic relationships. But I guess I can see where they're coming from?

[elapses.livejournal.com]

Maybe because it portrays (those four) women as being primarily concerned with shopping, money, and sex?
But that's just pigeonholing. They're characters. Only one of the four is actively interested in all three of those things, it's only when you lump them all together that those. As such, "shopping" and "money" especially only occasionally come up in the show as active topics of discussion (but don't get me wrong, I think "excessive materialism" is one of those legitimate criticisms you can throw at the show -- it's just that it's more frequently a backdrop or something Carrie is concerned with than actual things they are concerned with).

Anyway I mean like... if it was about four women who liked the exact same things and reacted to the world in the exact same way, then, well, yeah. That's sexist. If they were all the same, the show would be making a statement (intentionally or not) about how women are, but as it is, it is just telling us how these four individuals are. The four characters hinge upon their different viewpoints -- that's why they were created. And since feminism isn't about not caring about shopping or our desire to have children or whatever traditionally feminine area of interest, but rather about having the ability to care about what we as individuals want to care about, "feminine" or not, I don't think that's a valid argument.

LIKE, I get that it's glossy and absurd and overly sexualized and all kinds of things, I do. I loved the movie, but it was technically terrible. But it is also the only film I have ever known to end with a woman celebrating her 50th birthday with her friends. I think when we dismiss it as a franchise as misogynistic, we're dismissing all the things it does do -- center a show around four (successful, independent) women, objectify men, place real friendship between females front and center (and furthermore, above any relationships the women have with men), target women as their primary audience. It is almost impossible to find anything else in pop culture that does any of those things, let alone all of them. It shouldn't be that way, but it is. Until someone steps up to the bat and tries to do all or some of those things without the gooey, materialistic layers too, SatC is what we have.

[sleuths.livejournal.com]

Probably because it portrays stereotypes of women, to an extent. I mean, ultimately the four of them are not simple embodiments of stereotypes the way, say, Shakespeare's female characters were, but we have Samantha, who is, in the view of the Feminazis, a slut. Which she is, to an extent, but we, as fans, see and know from watching many episodes of SATC that Samantha has many facets about her that define her as a wonderful person who, yeah, does sleep around, but I guess those who claim the show is misogynistic would only see that angle, the whore or whatever, that just basically "destroys" all of what past feminists have done, or whatever, to prove that women are not just... that. You know? Then Charlotte, who in the beginning is the innocent, pure virginal woman whose main desire--as seen in that shallow, seen-only-one-episode-and-judged-already sort of way--is to get married and have children. I'm not sure exactly how one would stereotype Miranda and Carrie, though I guess Carrie would be that--weakness, so to speak, of being the mistress, essentially, to Big, and that makes her weak and stupid and all that, though we know that Carrie is infinitely strong and independent and lovely. Miranda I guess could be seen as that feminist, but then is scorned upon by the Feminazis because in the end, she is grouped with the other three--after that pursuit of a man. And that, I guess, is why it could be called misogynistic? It's all very shallow, of course, because, well, I love SATC and nothing could really change that--but that ridiculously superficial view of the four based on an episode as opposed to knowing the show as a whole and seeing what exactly they go through--it is easy, but stupid, to see how the show could then be called misogynistic, because all it does, on that superficial level, is highlight the very stereotypes of women that we have for centuries been trying to rid ourselves of.

But in the end, that misogynistic description is petty. There's so much more about the characters and the show that prove, if anything, the new age of feminism. It balances that stereotypical love of shopping and sex with the empowerment that comes with having the best of friends--a family--more than anything else, and the strength of a woman, after it's all over.

WOW THIS IS REALLY LONG SORRY. I don't think it really made much sense? I've had far too much sunshine recently!

[elapses.livejournal.com]

I think that the stereotype thing would be a legitimate argument if we were watching a show about four Samanthas, or four Charlottes, or four Carries (or four Mirandas, but I honestly don't think there would be as many complaints if that was the show). I would have an issue with a show about four women who, like Charlotte, are on a quest for completion in the form of a husband. Or four women looking for sex but not love. Because either of those shows would be trying to make some kind of point about women. But as they are they balance each other's stereotypes out -- Samantha's laissez-faire attitude towards sex is kept in check by Carrie's practical romanticism, Charlotte's quest for the perfect husband and kids with him is countered by Miranda's cynicism. It's the character system of checks and balances. And furthermore, you're right when you say that they all grow into characters beyond the original stereotype they were picked to embody.

And I know I'm preaching to the converted and you're just playing devil's advocate. I just feel like every possible argument for actual sexism is fallacious once you've seen more than a handful of episodes.

[so-bambiesque.livejournal.com]

Absolutely nothing. I hate, hate, hate the way that feminazis jump all over it. Women are objectified? Way worse for the men. It's the men that get portrayed as being assholic, when it's just Carrie having a hissie fit. Don't get me wrong, I kinda love SatC, but I admit that it's trash. But that's the point. It's not meant to be taken seriously. It's meant to be fun. I could go on about this for ages, for real. But I won't, lol.

[elapses.livejournal.com]

The thing is that, when I googled this? Feminazis weren't the ones who popped up. The people calling it misogynistic were either a) men or b) (self-proclaimed) evangelists, whose main argument was that the show was misogynistic "because they were sluts", and therefore it disrespects women. If I think about it too hard I start to get into FLAMES IN THE SIDE OF MY FACE mode.

SatC is totally trashy (in a delicious way), and yet it is still basically the only franchise in Hollywood that has bothered to market directly to women. Even chick flicks these days are either terrible or are starting to go the Judd Apatow route (which are more marketable to males). I would love a show (or a movie!) for women, about women that is not frothy and glossy and dismissable the way SatC is, but as such? THIS IS ALL WE HAVE. It (well, it and Golden Girls) is/are the only shows I can think of in modern pop culture (besides the knockoffs like Lipstick Jungle and whatever that one was with Lucy Liu and Bonnie Somerville) that feature female friendship in the deep, true way male bonds are shown. You can take or leave it as your tastes allow, but it pisses me off that the one show that shows four women sitting around and talking about their lives (and yes, men and shopping) is so frequently dismissed as misogynistic (not that because it's feminist in some ways doesn't mean it can't anti-feminist be in other ways -- I just have yet to see an argument that convinces me of ANY actual, real sexism).